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Post by mypartnarsux on Jun 21, 2016 0:43:38 GMT
So I don't really see the purpose (late game) of any heroes except for slaughter, bless, or lillith..
Sitael is decent I guess, as is satan.
The rest are basically worthless.
Discussed this before, but disgust is a tank that can't actually tank, cant taunt, and dies just as fast as other classes in high end boss fights.
The other DPS classes have no DPS relative to slaughter, and their stuns aren't really worth anything.
Cloud, thirst, death, revenge, seph, nightmare, all useless. I guess some of them look cool though.
im not really sure bless is even needed for anything other than baal.
My suggestion: Nerf the OP classes first, then re-asses.
If you buff a lot of classes map gets far too easy, it's easier to nerf 2-3 than buff 8 or whatever.
Also ergots don't hit hard enough and probably need to be buffed for giving 10000 gold a piece.
4 ergots should hit as hard as if not harder than slave.
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Post by 80yearoldman on Jun 21, 2016 0:55:27 GMT
This is undeniably true.
You can't run late game bosses (Solomon/Baal/Diablo) without a slaughter or santa even with a lilith or two with every other dps/tank character.
Most if not all are completely trash in damage and only do well being a meat shield and a distraction.
Being considered a tank late game is laughable to say the least disgust/revenge die just as fast as your friendly int characters.
They can't tank for more then 5 seconds the only reason a boss is cleared is due to proper stuns (lilith, sitael) and dps (slaughter, santa) going ham.
Anytime I've ever ran a boss and a disgust gets dc'd we absolutely loose nothing and can do the run almost as if he didn't provide anything since the beginning. (Only obvious thing I can see is ult before death dealing some damage before respawn).
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Post by mypartnarsux on Jun 21, 2016 0:58:21 GMT
Part of the issue is that bosses kill people instantly anyway and that most wipes are entire group wipes simultaneously... so the boss mechanics are part of the issue.
Another mechanic issue is that all classes have basically the same hp and armor.
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Post by 80yearoldman on Jun 21, 2016 0:59:45 GMT
When you claim to be a tank it has to be an obvious trait.
Disgust gains regen/magic resist but darnit what does that even do when you die from everything late game (auto attacks, spells, stuns, insta kills,).
Late game the meta will not change from sitael/lilith/slaughter/ -- Every other character is carried by these characters and only reap the benefits.
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Post by Meliodas on Jun 21, 2016 1:13:11 GMT
So I don't really see the purpose (late game) of any heroes except for slaughter, bless, or lillith.. Sitael is decent I guess, as is satan. The rest are basically worthless. Discussed this before, but disgust is a tank that can't actually tank, cant taunt, and dies just as fast as other classes in high end boss fights. The other DPS classes have no DPS relative to slaughter, and their stuns aren't really worth anything. Cloud, thirst, death, revenge, seph, nightmare, all useless. I guess some of them look cool though. im not really sure bless is even needed for anything other than baal. My suggestion: Nerf the OP classes first, then re-asses. If you buff a lot of classes map gets far too easy, it's easier to nerf 2-3 than buff 8 or whatever. Also ergots don't hit hard enough and probably need to be buffed for giving 10000 gold a piece. 4 ergots should hit as hard as if not harder than slave. Disguist can't tank ? Funny . He actually can't tank only 3 raid bosses (Meph , Solomon , Diablo) TOP POWER REID BOSSES
Bless need only for Baal ? Realy? Maybe top support need for healing other char on any bosses (except Meph) ? So erigorts only farm place that don't need big dmg If don't like so much in this map no one don't forcing you to play Sorry for my bad English
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Post by skweefe on Jun 21, 2016 1:35:34 GMT
the problem isn't the chars its the bosses u want constant burst (slaughter) while having the boss stun locked (lust, sitael), also the 50% MR helps so much, test a disgust vs a lust tanking meph w/o using abilities, a disgust will "tank" longer then revenge using all his skills while disgust doesn't have do use any
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Post by mypartnarsux on Jun 21, 2016 1:37:42 GMT
Sorry but fights before end game dont really matter, the rest of the bosses can be basically solo'd and are killable with every class combination.
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Post by Jericho on Jun 21, 2016 6:42:44 GMT
Everything you've said here is true, most of the heroes are useless. Also late game items are useless. Diablo accesory is worse than previous accesory where it grants bonus armor and bonus magic dmg, wich is very usefull for late bosses. Solomon hand gives 7.5X bonus all stats when activated, costing 3% mana each attack, but when you run out of mana you lose hp instead. After 30 normal attacks you lose mana, and at the next 30 attaks you die too because solomon cursed you. That 3% life loss iss WAY TOO MUCH. You could have added a special set effect for Solomon flag+gloves. With or without Solomon items, fighting with Meph is still the same (even harder)
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Post by oo0ooman on Jun 21, 2016 8:51:51 GMT
You are right bro disgust is useless for high rank bosses like baal,solomon,diablo and mephisto.... disgust is not look like a tanker to face them i can die easily like a normal char...disgust is just for early game T-T sad i will change my Disgust into thirst im ma regret to choose disgust-_- please admin make disgust better -_-
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Post by skweefe on Jun 21, 2016 14:08:00 GMT
can u guys plz test before u say all chars "tank" just as well as disgust
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Post by placekk on Jun 21, 2016 14:36:57 GMT
How about buffing the "bad" classes instead of nerfing the good ones? ;o
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Post by skweefe on Jun 21, 2016 14:54:34 GMT
even if u buffed classes they would still get overshadowed by slaughter,lust,sitael since they have what u want, dps/stuns, no point in having a tank when u can stun lock, so unless hvsh reworks the bosses no point in changing any classes they do what they are suppose to fairly well.
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Post by 80yearOldMan2 on Jun 21, 2016 17:40:58 GMT
You have to consider that tanks have 20mil for hp so they can already take 1 or 2 hits more but ultimately that doesn't mean anything if your "tanking" doesn't benefit the team.
You mentioned that all classes will be overshadowed just clarifying that those are the only real necessary classes to have for anything.
You have to provide a balance for the 10 other classes people will play.
Everyone at some point gets annoyed that it's mandatory or you won't go anywhere to find a slaughter to get a bless to get a lilith or you can't do late game with every other classes included.
A tank doesn't just take just 5 or 6 more hits then others it should take around 20 to 30 more to make a perfect example of what a tank does "absorbs all incomimg damage providing time for support/dps characters to back him up".
Masins "tank" doesn't do that at all never have I been able to support/help a tank survive late game because no matter the health and resist you die just as fast as anyone else you just happen to have more hp then others.
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Post by mypartnarsux on Jun 21, 2016 17:52:25 GMT
even if u buffed classes they would still get overshadowed by slaughter,lust,sitael since they have what u want, dps/stuns, no point in having a tank when u can stun lock, so unless hvsh reworks the bosses no point in changing any classes they do what they are suppose to fairly well. I agree that boss mechanics are PART of the issue, but there are other issues: all classes having basically the same armor is an issue (because they have the same items and starting armor) - same really applies in hitpoints. In Solomon/diablo/meph fights, everyone dies essentially simultaneously. If a disgust can tank twice as long as any other class, i'd be very surprised - a bless can simply run around baal and not die just by healing himself, a disgust cant even do that (assuming same gear) But then again, there are classes probably do 10-20 times the damage a disgust can do, so why cant disgust tank 10-20 times as long as they can? And placekk, the reason to nerfing the good classes rather htan buffing the bad is that there are only a few good classes, and a lot of bad ones, and if you buff all classes the map gets very easy (its already too easy, solomon/diablo fight are a joke and require no brain or special gear or even a lot of grinding)
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Post by Reuven on Jun 21, 2016 21:58:35 GMT
Finally people started to understand how trash this map really is
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